Emails
etc.
(If you've just arrived, the background to all this is here.)
The camera arrived on Tuesday 31st May. I was a bit taken aback when I discovered it in the A5 manila envelope I had brought in from our post box (just as well we have one, and not a high slot in the door!) - I was expecting a box, or at least a proper padded bag, and most eBay stuff is brought to the door by the postman for signature. This had come via normal letter post, at a cost to them of 79p (cost to me, £6).
As it happened, it had survived the journey, or at least, there was enough bubble-wrap round it to prevent more damage than there was already. I was very disappointed to see the state it was in, so I took some pictures straight away and emailed them to VFL, thinking that maybe it was unintentional, and that I might get a sympathetic hearing.
As you will
see, I didn't, and the problem escalated rather rapidly. These emails are
in chronological order, starting on the 31st. Mine are the friendly ones (mostly)
- theirs are in italics and are practically an object lesson in how not to
conduct business dialogue...
---------------
Dear Yvette
Camera
now received, thanks. I don't want you to think of me a "moaner or
whinger", but I have to say that it doesn't look like an "Ex-Display
warehouse return" - it looks like a camera that has had a hard working
life and has been dropped more than once! I was prepared to put up with
one that was not working but otherwise in good condition, which was why I
asked the question about the paint. There are some price sticker remnants,
as you mention, but there are also scuff marks, a screw missing and a
noticeable dent!
I
am not making this up - please see attached photos. In my opinion, the
camera is not as described, and I would like a full refund, please. I will
forget about the £6 postage (even though it only cost you 79p) and will
return it to you at my own expense, as I would like to resolve the matter
amicably.
Regards
FJP
----------------
The camera is a described , it definetely did not have a hard working life
, what are you talking about ? Who used it ? ???? Get serious , It is unreasonabe
to ask for a refund and non will be given if you like to exchange negative
feedback fine by me , my conscience is clear .
----------------
I have no wish to exchange negative feedback, but I
am serious.
You
say: "All my products are Ex-Display warehouse returns" which implies
that they have had little or no previous use. This camera may not have
been used to take pictures, but it looks as though it has been used as a
football! I have supplied you with pictures of some of the damage and have
since discovered two more missing screws, so someone has had it apart and
not put it back together properly (not me, I assure you). I wasn't
expecting the camera to work, but there is a world of difference between
an internal fault and physical damage!
Also,
I specifically asked before bidding about the state of the case.
I said: "the camera looks as though the blue finish is a bit knocked
about
on the top, above the lens"
and you said: "the paint above the lens is just fine".
It
isn't, as you should be able to see from my photos. The camera is
therefore not as described, and I should like my money back. Please.
I
will give good feedback if this matter can be settled reasonably. I
appreciate that you handle all kinds of stuff, and some rogue items will
slip through, but if this is an ex-display camera, I'm a Chinaman.
FJP
--------------
Read your own email , pause and think what you are saying . "the camera
looks as though the blue finish is a bit knocked about on the top, above the
lens"
and you said: "the paint above the lens is just fine".
Above the lens the camera is perfect . In fact most of the camera is unscratched
and lovely , true it did not have a box so there may be little transportation
damage but overall the camera is still in excellent condition . You are trying
perhaps too hard to persuade yourself you have 'a case' against me , in fact
the facts clearly indicate I described my item perfectly properly and answered
your question perfectly correctly . If you do not like the item put it on
sale on ebay , no big problem.
---------------
You have a very funny idea of "excellent condition".
As for "most of the camera is unscratched and lovely", I
must try to sell you a car sometime...
The camera is scratched, dented at both ends, and has three screws missing.
The small section above the lens is
about the only bit of it that isn't damaged, presumably because the price
sticker helped preserve it! The damage
was not caused in transportation here, as the bubble-wrap and envelope were
intact, so it must have left you in
that state. Indeed, you can see some of the scratches on your photo, which
is what I was asking about in the
first place.
I'll send you some more photos if you can't remember, but I'd much rather
send the camera. I certainly wouldn't
dream of re-selling it on eBay - no-one would buy it if I described it accurately!
I'm not trying to persuade myself of anything - the only persuading I did
was convincing myself that the camera
was cosmetically OK in the first place, which was clearly a mistake.
FJP
----------------
No reply to that, so I wrote again:
I
know this must be tiresome for you, but I await a reply to my last email
(sent about 1 am today).
You
can resolve the matter instantly by refunding my £28, which will still
leave you over £5 in profit on the postage. I have already offered to
return the camera at my own expense.
We
clearly have different expectations of what a decent camera looks like,
but every photographer I've ever met looks after his gear, and every
camera I've bought (mostly secondhand, and five off eBay) has been
immaculate, except yours.
I
don't expect you to see it my way entirely, but I do expect you to look
after your customers, especially when your advertisement says that: "I
will personally guarantee this item for a period of 7 days from the date
item(s) is received". Does this personal guarantee mean anything?
For
your information, I enclose a picture of the other missing screws. At
the other end (not shown) one of the screws has a scratch by it where the
screwdriver appears to have slipped...
FJP
----------------
The Item is guaranteed to be as described for 7 days , your item was described
as faulty and ex display , you got what you bought . Furthermore you had a
picture of both the front and the back of the camera . Dont waste your breath
anymore please , i will not reply on this subject anymore .
----------------
I did write again, of course, as by now I was getting a bit ratty, and had
assembled some of the photos on a web page, which I thought might be useful
ammunition. I wrote:
It
was NOT as described - that's the whole point! The pictures you supplied were
not very distinct, which is why
I asked about the condition, and your reply was misleading (to me, at least!).
As you are determined to see nothing wrong with the situation, I assume you
won't mind if I post my pictures on
the Web with your descriptions for all to see? That way, perhaps others might
be able to avoid this kind of
treatment.
The web page is here, if you care to look:
http://www.sgenergo.plus.com/fraud.htm
I haven't broadcast the address yet. You've got 24 hours to rectify the matter.
FJP
---------------
A day later, no reply, so I wrote again with 'Negative Feedback' as the subject:
Sorry
about the title, but I wanted to get your attention.
I assume you have my last email, and unless I hear from you shortly, that
address will appear in my feedback to
you, which will cost your business a lot more than £28.
FJP
---------------
Suit yourself jimmy , it aint gona cost me a bean , you seem to deserve
negative feedback for sure . Item was as described , I hope i got your attention
.
---------------
Inevitably we than exchanged negative feedback, in which they accused me of
writing "stroppy emails" (!) and followed it up with this today
(June 3rd):
I inform
you that your website consists defamation which is a legal OFFENCE !
It also is against the acceptable use policy of your web space/broadband provider,
they have been notified. I have made copies of your website and of the mind
to visit my lawyers on Monday with a view to commensing legal action against
you which should include substantial damages which should make the £29
of the camera pale into a tiny insignificance . I am giving you notice to
immediately halt this defamation
----------------
Well, it ain't defamation if it's true, and opinions aren't facts, as I have
tried to make clear at the bottom of each page. Perhaps they've been reading
the tabloids and are hoping to sue me for millions! I just hope they know
that most lawyers charge around £150 an hour. At least the camera's
now worth £29!
Just to be clear:
Defamation
n. The
act of damaging a person's reputation by making untrue statements. The remarks
are considered libel if printed or broadcast over the media and slander if
made orally. The defamation has to be proven to be made with malicious intent,
as opposed to just fair comment.
----------------
You may think I'm going over the top here, but closer inspection of their
advertisements and their attitude towards anyone who is bold enough to complain
(see their other negative feedback
on eBay, not to mention the feedback
they leave for others) has strengthened my resolve. I want other people to
know what they might be letting themselves in for, if they buy from VFL.
The camera itself is just a symptom of their attitude towards customers, who are fine as long as they are paying up and not making a fuss. My complaint is not that it doesn't work - that was expected (although their ad is carefully worded to make you think that it only "may be faulty") and didn't bother me, because I already have an F100 and thought the other could be useful for spares if it was in good condition, as I had been led to believe. There is, however, a world of difference between faulty and damaged, a distinction that VFL seem to be blissfully unaware of!
It's not just me, either - an iPod that they described as "PERHAPS FAULTY IN EXCELLENT COSMETIC CONDITION" turned out to have a "Totally busted HD" [hard disc] and to be "Heavily used and scratched" according to the buyer, who paid £140!
*** Update***
Since all this, I opened a dispute via eBay. Still unresolved, but here is the exchange, in chronological order. I love the shouted "NO REFUND EVER", but then I am such a nasty individual...
|
chessell I bought what was described as an "ex-display" camera that I expected to be in good condition, although possibly not working. I asked before the sale if it was scratched, and was told no. When it arrived, it was scratched, dented and had 3 screws missing. I have complained about the condition and sent photos. I was told "it is unreasonabe to ask for a refund and non will be given". We exchanged more emails and neg. feedback. I would like a refund, please. |
|
zestiest camera was sold using this description: 'To avoid misunderstandings i do not give any guarantee express or implied regarding this item , you buy it as is and as seen ' . In other words it was SOLD AS IS . The buyer is lying , he only asked about condition above lens , camera nontheless is in prety good cosmetic condition , screws were removed by buyer . Buyer is a nasty individual apart from being plainly wrong and dishonest . |
|
chessell Description is therefore contradictory, as it also says: "I will personally guarantee this item for a period of 7 days from the date item(s) is received by the buyer." The photos sent were taken immediately the camera was unpacked - I did not remove any screws and stated as much in my email. I have a witness to that and regard the accusation of lying as libellous. Zestiest is a bully (see feedback left by him to others) and should not be a power seller - his feedback has long been below 98% |
|
zestiest Zestiest has a feedback of over 1400 happy customers , facts speak for themselves . libellous bully Chessell's reputation is a tiny fraction of Zestiest's . Unintelligent Chessell cannot understand the item description, not my problem . NO REFUND EVER - complaint is without merit , scheming, lying , and being unreasonable are not causes for refund , quite the opposite . |
|
chessell And 40 very unhappy ones! Not a good record for a so-called Power Seller. As for "NO REFUND EVER", that says it all, and is entirely against the spirit of Ebay, which is brought into disrepute by sellers like this. I simply want my money back for an item that was misrepresented. I would have been entirely happy if this had happened, but seller would apparently prefer to fund a libel action than repay £28! |
|
zestiest The item was not misrepresented , but accurately described and sold . Here is the description : 'To avoid misunderstandings i do not give any guarantee express or implied regarding this item , you buy it as is and as seen , please do not email me regarding possible faults etc ' Furthermore I state that ; 'Items sold as faulty or perhaps faulty are excluded from any money back scheme .' You are not worth pursuing legally even though you have acted with malice . |
|
chessell It is not the fault I am complaining about - it is the condition, which was stated as "ex-display warehouse return" implying that it had had little or no use and was cosmetically fine. My pre-sale query was about this, and your reply was entirely misleading. You cannot conveniently exclude yourself from giving refunds where you have misrepresented the item! You also state that "All items are sent via insured mail.." but I see no evidence of this. Your descriptions are fraudulent. |
[Legal note: Any opinions expressed above are those of the author alone. Quotations and facts related are accurate and can be corroborated.]
- Updated 4th July -